Ikken Hisatsu - Something I really don’t understand

[SOLDIER]

Ikken Hisatsu

Something I really don’t understand

In the attempt to train for Ikken Hisatsu is every technique the ‘killing blow’, or is a technique selected to be the ‘killing blow’?

For Example a punch combination of a jabbing punch and a one step punch. Is the jab a ‘killing blow’, or is it used to get the stronger punch in and thence do the damage?

Is this how we should see combination work, as opening an opponent up for Ikken Hisatsu?

Or is every technique the'one'?


Osu

[kensei]

Interestingly I just had a conversation with one of my juniors about this very thing.

I dont pretend to be 100% right. I have read what every expert in the feild ( masters standing in a open area I guess ) have to say about it, and I have taken this from it........

Each and every strike, kick, block and punch should be done with the spirit or mentality that this is the first, last and only technque that will be done. Then viewing a movie, frame by frame, the next technique is a new "frame", a new moment and completely separate from the last move.

Now the reason this came up is because my junior is very much into the sport of Karate and martial arts. Like me he is into Judo and he also does Jujitsu, were I did Sambo. We were talking about the fact that combinations dont fit into the concept of "one punch, one kill" and I had to agree. This is why Sport, MA training and self defense are all so vastly different. When you do sports you work to set up techniques, perform them, get a point and then move to the next point you want to score. In the Dojo you are repetitivly working on Waza with partners and obviously after a "sweep, punch" combo your partner gets up and you do it again. In the tournament you do it 70% full power and speed with 0% impact. In the Dojo you may go 50-80% full speed and reserve the impact to maybe 10% (depending on the dojo), but on the street you have to give 100% on both areas and prey you dont have to do that on the"Next" Waza as the fight should be done.....or theoretically it should be.

I have to say that I did a tone of tournaments when I was younger, and I did work out in the dojo twice a day for about three to four hours a day. and I still dont think that any of that lives up to the "real world" situations I had as a bouncer or the few unlucky times I actually had to defend myself.

In a tournament Ikken Hisatsu does not really come into play at all. In the dojo a little. Normally it is a concept that may be mentioned once or twice a week but really not focused on. In the few times I had to use Karate, that was the FIRST thing that jumped into my mind.

Again, to me....it means each technique should have the potential to end a altercation in its tracks. Will it....Probably not, but if you dont give 100% then you dont get that chance!

[shotokan101]

Interesting posts - and strictly speaking I think that the ultimate goal is to be able to commit totaly to every strike and block with the intent to make it a "finishing blow". after all I think Funakoshi is reputed to have said something about "destroying your opponent" with your block.

Practicalities aside of actually being able to kill a genuine aggressor/opponent with one (any?) blow in a real life situation in modern clothing - I see that it's very important to train with this mental attitude - at least if you're training in Karate as an Art as opposed to a Sport.

Now while the concept of Sun-Dome training allows us to practice this idea in "realtive safety" for strikes it certainly pressents a problem for blocking....

So getting back to the original question - if fit's "o.k." to block and counter (e.g. Go-No-Sen) then it's surely "o.k" to use a preliminary technique to set up the opening for your "killing/finishing blow" technique. ? .... - I don't think that this is contrary to the original concept.....

[kensei]

Interesting posts - and strictly speaking I think that the ultimate goal is to be able to commit totaly to every strike and block with the intent to make it a "finishing blow". after all I think Funakoshi is reputed to have said something about "destroying your opponent" with your block.

I hate it when people say what I am trying to say...but faster, with shorter sentences and more clearly......

[shotokan101]

Interesting posts - and strictly speaking I think that the ultimate goal is to be able to commit totaly to every strike and block with the intent to make it a "finishing blow". after all I think Funakoshi is reputed to have said something about "destroying your opponent" with your block.

I hate it when people say what I am trying to say...but faster, with shorter sentences and more clearly......

If it's any consolation your spelling is usually better than mine - especially given the "words per post" ratio

[fujicolt]

Simon

I would politely suggest you are being TOO focused.

View Karate NOT as fragmented parts BUT as a WHOLE technique.

By way of a VERY poor analogy - think of a racing car - every part needs to be working and able at maximum efficiency so that when you approach that high speed corner it WILL get you through it safely and productively in the context of your Goal.

once you understand that the the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - yer got it!

so if we take (in no order) just as a simple 'karate' example -

footwork = 10
positioning - 10
speed = 10
accuracy = 10
reactions = 10
mental attention = 10
timing = 10
commitment = 10
ability to control one's self under prressure = 10
physical skill and experience = 10

that is 100

add them up and combine thier ability to assit each other and the optimum value will equal FAR higher than 100

IMHO! = and that was a VERY limited list to demonstrate a point.

it is called Synergy as i am sure you all know

[kensei]

Interesting posts - and strictly speaking I think that the ultimate goal is to be able to commit totaly to every strike and block with the intent to make it a "finishing blow". after all I think Funakoshi is reputed to have said something about "destroying your opponent" with your block.

I hate it when people say what I am trying to say...but faster, with shorter sentences and more clearly......

If it's any consolation your spelling is usually better than mine - especially given the "words per post" ratio

LOL, I will take that. I am also a very good typist...But I would much rather be understood than legible

[fujicolt]

doesn't legible mean understandable

[kensei]

doesn't legible mean understandable

Not really, one can read an illegible bit of writing and still understand it

[plwilloughby]

Does Ikken Hisatsu really mean "killing blow". Isn't the translation more like "1 fist decision". Someone who know Japanese better please help me. I look at it more as making everything decisive. A little different meaning than "killing blow". I like the idea of being able to disable the opponent without killing.

Paul

[kensei]

Does Ikken Hisatsu really mean "killing blow". Isn't the translation more like "1 fist decision". Someone who know Japanese better please help me. I look at it more as making everything decisive. A little different meaning than "killing blow". I like the idea of being able to disable the opponent without killing.

Paul

The Direct translation is "Ikken Hissatsu" - " first meeting certain kill" or " a look certain kill" That is the direct translation so I think "one hit, one kill" is not to far off.

[fujicolt]

but isn't 'one hit' an amalgamation of many things to make it possible?

[kensei]

I agree, but I was stating a direct translation of the word, that is all.

[fujicolt]

not a translation I know but wouldnt 'prepare to win decisively' kinda hit the mark?

[shotokan101]

not a translation I know but wouldnt 'prepare to win decisively' kinda hit the mark?

Where does the "prepare to" come from then ? (just curious - only know Scottish and Swearish)