thinking the unthinkable - would you KILL to defend?

[bob63]

sadly most people in the UK are killed by someone they know and probably loved once.

[nathanso]

Of the homicides for which law enforcement provided supplemental data to the UCR Program, the victim-offender relationship was unknown for 44.1 percent of the victims. For the incidents in which the relationships were known, 76.8 percent of the victims knew their killers and 23.2 percent were slain by strangers. Among the incidents in which the victims knew their killers, 29.8 percent were murdered by family members and 70.2 percent were killed by acquaintances. The 2004 data also revealed that 33.0 percent of female victims were killed by their husbands or boyfriends, and 2.7 percent of the male victims were slain by their wives or girlfriends.

[bob63]

for the uk by comparison for same period
" According to Home Office figures, of the 858 people who were the victims of homicide in 2003/4, 63 per cent of women and 40 per cent of men knew the main or only suspect in the case. Sixty per cent of those women and 12 per cent of the male victims were killed by a lover, partner or former partner. The remaining 37 per cent of men and 21 per cent of women were the victims of what are officially defined as "stranger homicides". This category, however, includes crimes in which the murderer and victim come into contact through a business or professional relationship, in which someone is killed while carrying out their occupation - which includes such cases as security guards, shopkeepers, or police officers murdered on duty - and terrorist and contract killings. The actual number of purely random murders among these "stranger homicides", where the motive appears inexplicable, are very small, a handful each year."

so in worrying about use of lethal force to defend yourself you are far far more likely to be killed by someone you know

for stranger killings (in the absence of gang killing down here in the sw so far!) one punch killings where victims sustain fatal bleeds on the brain when "sparked out" and hit pavements hard, are far more common. So be careful before dropping anyone

[Paul Bedard]

I think that this would depend on the situation. Just threatening me, one on one probably not. Multiple opponents, some with weapons, most likely the first couple. Threatening one of my loved ones with deadly force `No Question` I believe that a lot of us would turn to a somewhat animalistic behavior moreso if something/someone we chrerished is being threatened, than we would, if we ourselves were at risk
Paul B

[james luke]

I find it interesting that many have focused on being angry enough to kill or question whether they could kill if they had someone "at their mercy". I think many us have probably wrestled with this question "could I kill?" And surely giving in to anger is the opposite of what we train for? If we had someone "at our mercy" then he is no longer a threat surely?
If the real question is "could I kill if my life or the lives of my loved ones was at stake?" Then surely the answer must be yes else what is the bloody point of what we all do and think about and have done for most of our lives?
would I kill ? most assuredly, do i have a moral conscience? yes of course, as I believe most martial artists have. Martial artists have tended to be, in my experience, some of the nicest people you could wish to meet. if they were not we wouldn't be having this conversation.
However I do not think you can properly predict what you would do in any extreme stress situation. I would like to think I would respond appropriately to the level of threat and up till now I have. I have also agonised afterwards over whether I could have talked my way out of a situation, or did I go straight to violence level because I had had a bad day, did I fight to avoid embarrassment? Should I have hit him that hard/where I hit him/walked away etc.
that is not an indication of weakness, just an indication of humanity. Lets just fervently hope it is never tested, for any of us and if it is we act appropriately.

[Paul Bedard]

James Luke; very well said
OSU
Paul B

[kensei]

I would never feel good about the death of another person....BUT if you attack my family or myself...You are not a human in my eyes. I would not think twice about killing another human being if they attacked my daughter, wife or any member of my family. I also would not worry about harming, maiming or damaging a person and I also dont think I would miss a nights sleep if someone attacked my daughter and I took them out. I would use anything in my reach to get the job done and not think twice about the heap of flesh I left behind because THEY decided to end their life with their behavior. Granted, A level response for everything. If a stranger kicked my daughter in the shin I would not rip their trachea out...well not right away

I have only had to defend a "loved one" one time. It was a girl friend in high school who was being attacked by two boys on the way home. I did not kill them...but I am sure at least one of them still has a limp

[fujicolt]

Thanks for all the very interesting comments on the thread but please (some of you) go back and read my original question which i think posed the question quite clearly.

[Paul Bedard]

Well If that`s all you wanted.
`YES`
Paul B

[Bob Davis]

Without trying to justify the circumstances, to be honest it's never really occured to me that I wouldn't. I've thought about it, (not constantly), over the years and as a rational thing I have no issue with it if required. Does that mean I could do it in reallity, I've no idea.

[shotokan101]

Without trying to justify the circumstances, to be honest it's never really occured to me that I wouldn't. I've thought about it, (not constantly), over the years and as a rational thing I have no issue with it if required. Does that mean I could do it in reallity, I've no idea.

And quite possibly one day you would and another you would not.

Jim

[fujicolt]

totally agree Jim

what would be the deciding factors for you?

[shotokan101]

totally agree Jim

what would be the deciding factors for you?

Don't think I can be very specific Steve - I feel it's more likely to be related to one's mental/psychological state at that point in time.

Stress/tiredness will obviously play a factor but it could be simply something that makes us feel a bit more/less emotional than normal that perhaps reminds us more/less of our own mortality.

Jim

[fujicolt]

OK lets tweak the question - would you die to defend?

[dodwatt]

I would