Is this bad etiquette?

[Kathy]

I think it would be just rude to set up next door to someone else. The right thing to do is to pick an area not full of karate instructors. I think it's different if you set up next to a different style or MA, as you're just giving variety or options to the student.

[Kris]

Isn't having two Shotokan clubs giving the student an option?

[Bob Davis]

Isn't having two Shotokan clubs giving the student an option?

Would be if they had any idea what they were choosing between, in my experience 99% of beginners wouldn't have a clue, so the option is basically down to, "when can I make it", "who is cheaper", (which is still an option I suppose ).

[kensei]

Okay, here is a situation we had in our last club that we were at. on anygiven day you would see our shotokan group training, a Kyokushin group training, a Kung fu group training and a boxing group training, not all at the same time.
We had a great relationship with the boxing group and they were very respectful with us. I would sit and chat with the coach before class and he was a good guy. The Kyokushin guy on worked out once a week on days we were their and he was caught on several occasions doing "not nice things" before and after his class. He would hide our pictures of Funakoshi and Nakayama on us, he broke the boxing speed bag mount and tried to blame it on one of the boxers ( we all saw him), He tore down our posters, he gave hand outs to our students and he tried to pick a fight with my instructor....who was 30-40 years older than him....and who probably would have killed him. he was basically a jerk. He took our hand outs from the front one time and tossed them in the trash infront of two of our students and put a stack of his in their place.
We also had issues with the Kung fu group. they would stay on the floor when we were trying to get on to warm up and then challenged one of the sempai to a fight when we asked them to make way for us....I saw this and it was uncalled for, the senior was very nice and the kid just threw attitude at him. The kung fu group was kicked out shortly after this so it did not get worse.

These are just some issue you can run into if you train in a gym with other groups. Not so say that is will happen...but it could.

[Makoto]

yes it could happen, but again that is individuals being rude. How is it wrong to set up at the same facility. If I want to teach my brand of shotokan karate, then I am going to do it. No one controls a facility.

This is almost like a gang mentality. This is our turf, keep out. lol

[kensei]

yes it could happen, but again that is individuals being rude. How is it wrong to set up at the same facility. If I want to teach my brand of shotokan karate, then I am going to do it. No one controls a facility.

This is almost like a gang mentality. This is our turf, keep out. lol

It is not a gang mentality, it is good business sense. You dont see McDonalds letting Arbys set up next door if they can help it. The malls that McDonalds agree to go in have strickt contracts with them about what types of food chains can go into the malls. ALso, you dont see a music store open next to a music store in a mall. if thier are two they are normally at opposite ends of the malls. And a better example is Walmart wont open a store were a Zellers is. Not good to split the clientel up.

I guess if you are not opening a Karate club to make money and dont mind paying out of pocket when it cant make rent...then it is okay.

[Makoto]

It is not a gang mentality, it is good business sense

From a business point of view this is wrong?? Well, like some one said earlier, very few set out to take up shotokan. They just want to do karate, and join what ever club they find most comfortable. Style of club has nothing to do with it. So, in essense you are arguing that no other clubs or any similar kind of MA should set up at the same facility.

From a business point of view, I do not disagree that this is not the ideal situation. But from the way it was first presented here, in terms of manners, and karate morality, I do not see the problem. My brand of karate is my brand of karate, yours is yours.

Shotokan is that far widespread now that in some cases you have two groups that claim to do shotokan who do techniques and what not in very different ways. So, I am not going to let a dojo from one org tell me where I can and not set up, if I am not apart of that org. To me you could be kempo or kung fu for all I care.

However, I will agree that it is best when you are the only MA at a facility. But, unless you have an agreement with the managment, there is not need to get upset, angry, feel insulted, what not when some one else also sets up at the same facility. To do so is not business at all. It is fighting turf. IMO

[kensei]

John,
I think I see what you are saying and agree. I am saying it is silly and a bit self defeating to open up in a club were A) another club already exists...no matter the style and B) it is not a good situation when a second, third or fourth club opens up in the gym/club you are working in.

Now, having said that I dont see it as a moral/ Ettiquite issue as much as others would. I think as long as you are respectful of the other club and or dont see them it is fine.


In uni I did a business model for a Karate club and how it could servive on its own. it is not easy to survive as it is, once you add competition into the mix it gets harder. Now add competition into the same location and it gets near impossible for both groups to make a go of it.


James.

[kataqueen]

When I started training in Sussex I just did karate, I was not aware that there were different styles, unions, associations etc. Later I moved to another part of the country and joined the first club I found as I still believed it was all the same. Generally I don't think beginners are aware that there are differences in style, so they would probably go for the nearest club or just the cheapest.

[simon]

I to was under the impression it was respectfull to start a dojo in a new area away from other Dojos regarles of style, but on my return to England last year I visited alot of old friends with established Dojos and there is an abudance or McDojos everywhere "no real style just Karate" What is going On

[sansoo]

I have been practicing for 30+ years and would like to teach, I just do not feel it would be repectful to my teacher to do so

Now if it were not my instructor involved I would not have a problem opening a school in the same style,,,,I would try to get as far away as possible from a school of the same style (or any school for that matter)

[nathanso]

Karate was never meant to be a money making business and yet there are those in it strictly for financial reward.

I believe that this was one of the Shotokai's criticisms of the JKA- that the latter group was commercializing karate.

[nathanso]

Many universities and community centers have multiple flavors of martial arts, and even more than one style of karate, taught at the same facility. While it may not be conducive to an instructor making a lot of money, I think that it is good from the point of view of the prospective student being able to find a particular style of MA and instruction that best suits them.

[nathanso]

I visited alot of old friends with established Dojos and there is an abudance or McDojos everywhere "no real style just Karate" What is going On

Maybe they are simply following Gichin Funakoshi's lead.

[fujicolt]

just a question here -

if you dedicate your life to a study of something so that you develop skills and understanding regarding said subject - and then teach and advise upon that subject to others who wish to learn about it - are you wrong in charging for the service you provide?