Is this bad etiquette?

[dodwatt]

Steve, I don't think your wrong charging for passing on experience which has probably cost you a fortune in the first place to learn.

Its like learning any trade, and then trying to better yourself by starting your own business, there's nothing wrong with that.

What is wrong, is if you don't think you're getting value for money, i.e. coming out of a class or a course and thinking what have I learnt or achieved.

Now don't get me wrong here because I know that we have to do the hard physical sessions but courses are meant to develop our karate, we should be coming away from them saying to ourselves that was fantastic, I never knew that, I have actually learnt something IMO

[shotokan101]

Well said George - and of course there's nothing wrong with an Instructor charging a reasonable rate for his/her time spent passing on the sklls they've learnt - I've actually commented on occasion that I'd rather pay a bit more to get better focussed training sessions (e.g. no kids involved etc.)

Jim

[bob63]

Below is an ad' for courses being run in uk I took off the internet this morning

"Just imagine YOU could become a Professional, Fully Qualified Martial Arts Instructor running your OWN Part/Full Time Martial Arts Academy in your area.
YOU could be earning a living and providing a valuable public service by this time next month.
?WHY? stick in that boring, repetitive mind numbing job one moment longer than you need to.
The Martial Arts World needs your expertise and experience.
YOU could be the Founder and Chief Instructor of the next World-wide Martial Arts style.
TAKE ACTION!
BE DECISIVE!"

providing you have trained for 1 year in some form of Karate and for £395 for two days training (3-4 hours a day) they will issue you with a grading (1st dan) and teaching certificate and act as your CRB clearing point. In these troubled times I do wonder how many people will sign up and open clubs in the hope of making money.

[nathanso]

....providing you have trained for 1 year in some form of Karate and for £395 for two days training (3-4 hours a day) they will issue you with a grading (1st dan) and teaching certificate and act as your CRB clearing point. In these troubled times I do wonder how many people will sign up and open clubs in the hope of making money.

I am willing to consider my attitude to this to be indicative of a flaw in my personality. Anyone dumb enough to do this deserves to lose their money.

[shotokan101]

Ah Neil - but with the even dumber public out there and the apparent popularity of some "McD's" you could possibly end up making money on the deal.....

Jim

[fujicolt]

and legitimate MA schools will reap the legacy of Joe Public thinking Martial Arts - a load of cr*p. Very sad indeed!

[shotokan101]

Yep - "Splash Damage" in addition to taking students away

[bob63]

it is a sad indictment of the splintered world of Karate that you can give yourself grand titles for your organisation and because of the bewildering amount of associations and organisations how is joe public supposed to know the good from the bad to the downright ugly.
as per the thread if these people opened a dojo near you they would steal and disenchant potential students who would think "Karate" is a second rate money making scam.
Etiquette probably has no place in their Karate.

[fujicolt]

Totally agree guys - what do you think is the solution - how can we let prospective students know what is the real deal and what is the sham?

I really believe it can be done - especially so with a concerted effort from the legitimate orgs - it must surely be in the collective interest to expose these 'McDojo' for what they are - what do you all think?

[shotokan101]

Of course I agree Steve - but short of visiting the McDojo's and challenging their instructors as in the old "chop-Socky" movies I'm not sure what we can do to divert the students.

Jim

[fujicolt]

HAHA Jim

that would be fun BUT no I was thinking more along the lines of nationally exposing the fact that they fast track instructors etc and therefore are a sham. the press love this kind of thing and to be honest the public have a right to know - the boxing community wouldn't tolerate it - so why should we.

Jim - Imagine them fast tracking your profession and sending me out there as 'Computer knowledgeable' - I know YOU would have no prob in showing I am actually a 'Computer Numpty' but imagine iif they were advertising everywhere - would your profession not step in?

[shotokan101]

Steve the real problem is that in MA Instruction there are no genuine consistent definitions of ability - even within "real" Styles/Schools - just take a look at any MA forum and see the endless debates about "what makes a Black Belt" and is it equivalent across schools/styles/orgs etc.

It's not realy the same as comparing "professional" qualifications - hell yes you can get "clocks" Chartered Surveyors too but at least they've all "passed" a nationally agreed exam curriculium....

Jim

[fujicolt]

Jim - you hit the nail on the head - NO internationally or even nationally agreed standard.

and i do see yer point - even if standards met we will get various levels but at least they will at some point have hit the minimum standard required. rather than being awarded it to simply con the public. sad sad situation we face isn't it.

[Paul Bedard]

Does anyone notice that a lot of the full time traditional dojos are struggling to suceed & yet the ones that have multicolored gis & sell all sorts of padding & padded weapons [for crying out loud], have 3 stripes for every belt, 6 gradings or more a year etc.. seem to be attracting more clients, I hear every once in a while some even sweat in these places. Oh dear Gimmicks
Paul B

[shotokan101]

Does anyone notice that a lot of the full time traditional dojos are struggling to suceed & yet the ones that have multicolored gis & sell all sorts of padding & padded weapons [for crying out loud], have 3 stripes for every belt, 6 gradings or more a year etc.. seem to be attracting more clients, I hear every once in a while some even sweat in these places. Oh dear Gimmicks
Paul B

...only when the air conditioning breaks down in Summer though Paul