what could be done to make shotokan an olympic sport

[shotokan101]

IMO Shotokan should/could never be an Olympic "Sport" because it isn't a sport and to become such a sport would compromise its integrity too much - I couldn't stand to watch Shotokan Karate become what I've seen Taekwondoe become in the Olympics

So does that mean that you are against all karate competitions? I see no intrinsic difference between shobu ippon and current WKF kumite rules, for example. They're both sport, just with different rules. As for kata competitions, how is that anything but sport?

Sorry - but I'm not sure about the point you're making possibly because I hadn't considered your specific frame of reference - are you implying that current WKF Kumite Competition standards is equivalent to the "half-arsed" joke that is my perception of Current olympic Taekwondo competition standards where two competitors stand there padded to the hilt - unable to punch to the head and throw pitiful punchs to padded body areas and occasionally impressive uncontrolled head kicks but mostly ineffective body kicks from too close ?

Regarding Kata - who knows what Olympic Shotokan/Karate Kata would turn out to be like ? all I know is I never perform Kata as if it's a sport....

EDIT- and no I am not against competition in principle....

[Tom O'Brien]

I posted this awhile ago. This came from the AAU:
Dear Karate Enthusiast:
It is with Great regret that I must inform you that rumors being circulated as to the Olympic status of Karate are false. We have been inundated with questions regarding whether karate is now an Olympic sport.

Apparently, the excitement and rumors were sparked by the proclamation on the USANKF website and headline in a commercial Karate website that "Karate is now an Olympic Sport." The article goes on to state that "karate has been raised to the level of an Olympic sport," proclaiming a sundry of items and asks for a $250.00 lifetime membership to the USANKF the organization making this claim.

Let there be no misunderstanding - - karate is not in the Olympics and is not an Olympic sport. The International Olympic Committee has confirmed to us in writing that karate indeed is not an Olympic sport. We will attach their communication with our office for you. "Click Here for .pdf Doc" The following explanation should allay any remaining doubt.

“Five ‘non-Olympic’ sports - roller sports, squash, golf, karate and rugby sevens - - had been studied by the Olympic Programme Commission as part of its two-year analysis. The International Federations, the IFs, for these five sport were deemed to have met the criteria to be considered. The following procedure was followed in Singapore in 2005 to determine whether any of those sports would become Olympic sports.

The first group of voting would determine the first nominee for consideration. The following are the results of that vote as reported by the IOC:

First Round
Karate: 23
Roller Sports: 20
Rugby: 17
Squash: 16
Golf: 14

Second Round
Karate: 27
Rugby: 22
Squash: 21
Roller Sports: 20

Third Round
Karate: 33
Squash: 29
Rugby: 25

Fourth Round
Squash: 40
Karate: 39

Squash is elected as one of the two nominees.

The second group of voting would determine the second nominee for consideration. The following are the results of the that vote as reported by the IOC:

Fifth Round
Karate: 32
Rugby: 23
Roller Sports: 22
Golf: 15

Sixth Round
Karate: 35
Rugby: 33
Roller Sports: 28

Seventh Round
Karate: 54
Rugby: 38
Karate is elected as the second nominee.

From these five ‘non-Olympic’ sports, the IOC members selected karate and squash as the two sports which could potentially be chosen to join the Olympic programme for London 2012. For such selection to be endorsed, however, a two-thirds majority is needed, since any ‘non-Olympic’ sport must become an Olympic sport and listed as such in the Olympic Charter under Rule 46.

The following are the results of the that vote as reported by the IOC:
Vote on the Inclusion of Karate on Rule 46 of the Olympic Charter

Yes: 38
No: 63

“Neither squash nor karate obtained this two thirds majority and will therefore not be included for London 2012.”

Further evidence that karate is not an Olympic sport can be found at Rule 46 of the IOC Charter, titled “Olympic Sports,” which provides that “The sports governed by the following IFs are considered as Olympic sports.” The Rule goes on to list 27 IFs for the summer games. The WKF is not listed.

In 2005 in Singapore, karate was not accepted by the International Olympic Committee (“IOC”) as a sport to participate in the Olympics through at least 2016. Karate is not scheduled to participate as a sport in any upcoming Olympics. Moreover, the IOC itself referred to karate as a “non-Olympic” sport in its July 11, 2005 report of the Singapore vote.

Although karate has not been ignored by the IOC, it certainly has not been named as an Olympic sport. Feel free to review the IOC website where you will find a section titled "Recognised Sports." Although titled "Recognised Sports," the section actually recognizes International Federations, not sports:

"In order to promote the Olympic Movement, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) may recognise as International Sports Federations (IFs) international non-governmental organisations administering one or several sports at world level and encompassing organisations administering such sports at national level."

The section goes on to state the standards imposed on an IF in order to retain its "recognized" status, and that the status is limited to 2 years absent renewal. The section goes on to list 29 sports whose IFs have received "recognized" status. Among these sports are Bandy and Korfball, sports which you probably have never heard of, and Chess and Tug of War, games which most would not even consider to be sports. Karate is listed among these "sports" and the section directs you to the WKF website for more information.

Thus, although the WKF has received Olympic recognition, karate has not. To declare that karate is an Olympic sport would be declaring that Chess and Tug of War are also now Olympic sports. We ask you to ignore the baseless rumors. Notwithstanding the efforts of few to unfairly manipulate the Olympic movement, there are many truly working toward attaining Olympic recognition for the sport of karate. We will keep you advised at that effort.
Thanks,
Tom

[KevinM]

IMO Shotokan should/could never be an Olympic "Sport" because it isn't a sport and to become such a sport would compromise its integrity too much - I couldn't stand to watch Shotokan Karate become what I've seen Taekwando become in the Olympics

So does that mean that you are against all karate competitions? I see no intrinsic difference between shobu ippon and current WKF kumite rules, for example. They're both sport, just with different rules. As for kata competitions, how is that anything but sport?

Acceptable contact , for a start.....they are both miles apart.....

[Garry]

Acceptable contact , for a start.....they are both miles apart.....

"Miles apart", how so?

[simon]

Thank you for your comments, so if there where an Olympic Karate association for each country and the board changed the katas and made Kumite like TKD, I feel this would be a great upset. But what I can't understand Judo and tae Kwondo are part of it all Karate has been established in my mine quite some time so why not, or is it all to do with politics, who know? I would like to hear all you thoughts upon this

Simon Williams

[Darjum]

I'm with Kevin on this. The mere thought of Karate becoming an Olympic sport makes my heart sink.

Nothing wrong with sport as a part of the training, I am involved in organising shobu-ippon events myself, but if it ever became an Olympic Sport then the pursuit of medals / sponsorship would be the only goal in training. Also we would be dictated to like the WKF are trying to do by saying that their version or Olympic version would be the only OFFICIAL type of Karate. What about the 90% of Karate-ka who do not compete at all!!!

But I will stop now otherwise I will begin to rant...sorry

Darren.

[KevinM]

Acceptable contact , for a start.....they are both miles apart.....

"Miles apart", how so?

Simple really.....if Karate was to be part of an Olympic set up , it would have to be watered down ....again ........not only that , what shape , style or form would this Olympic Karate take, i believe it would be unrecognisable to what some of us would consider to be effective and controlled contact , i fear it would become fresh air freestyle dancing and may even include the wearing of head protection , etc, etc .to bring it into the same sort of control as the boxing set up in the Olympics.

This is of course is all speculation , but i do fear it would be acceptable to the masses and not the general karate world,........whatever that may be.

[Garry]

Acceptable contact , for a start.....they are both miles apart.....

"Miles apart", how so?

Simple really.....if Karate was to be part of an Olympic set up , it would have to be watered down ....again ........not only that , what shape , style or form would this Olympic Karate take, i believe it would be unrecognisable to what some of us would consider to be effective and controlled contact , i fear it would become fresh air freestyle dancing and may even include the wearing of head protection , etc, etc .to bring it into the same sort of control as the boxing set up in the Olympics.

This is of course is all speculation , but i do fear it would be acceptable to the masses and not the general karate world,........whatever that may be.

I misunderstood what you were saying, I think. I thought you were saying that acceptable levels of contact in say WKF and shobu ippon were miles apart. Having competed under both sets of rules, I would say that it was pretty close. I've been injured doing both

[nathanso]

So does that mean that you are against all karate competitions? I see no intrinsic difference between shobu ippon and current WKF kumite rules, for example. They're both sport, just with different rules. As for kata competitions, how is that anything but sport?

Sorry - but I'm not sure about the point you're making possibly because I hadn't considered your specific frame of reference - are you implying that current WKF Kumite Competition standards is equivalent to the "half-arsed" joke that is my perception of Current olympic Taekwondo competition standards where two competitors stand there padded to the hilt - unable to punch to the head and throw pitiful punchs to padded body areas and occasionally impressive uncontrolled head kicks but mostly ineffective body kicks from too close ?
.... and no I am not against competition in principle....

I am also not against competition, and being older than dirt, would personally prefer shobu ippon rules to the current WKF rules. That said, I consider both those and Olympic TKD to be sport, and the distinctions to be quibblling over rules. I don't think the mass of viewers would consider them very different from each other. Indeed, since WKF is the IF recognized by the IOC, their current scoring system favoring head kicks over punches would make karate seem even more like TKD.

OTOH, if the IOC really wanted to add a sport that viewers wanted to see, they'd add MMA, not karate.

[shotokan101]

OTOH, if the IOC really wanted to add a sport that viewers wanted to see, they'd add MMA, not karate

Nah - surely it would have to be bare knuckle boxing if they wanted to please the "masses" Neil.....

[nathanso]

OTOH, if the IOC really wanted to add a sport that viewers wanted to see, they'd add MMA, not karate

Nah - surely it would have to be bare knuckle boxing if they wanted to please the "masses" Neil.....

You might be on to something. I think the masses might really go for karate as long as there were rounds (which of course would require scantily clad round card girls).

[simon]

I agree, I prefer Shobu-Ippon rules than WKF. Great comment by Darren, there are many karate-ka who do not compete and would not what to part of an over rulling association that dictates the way a head ( you are not recognised if you are not part of us). keep up the excellent comments.


Simon williams ( One day I will learn to spell)