Pedagogy in Karate

[Fightingaintcoolguys]

Being a good karate-ka doesn't mean you'll make a good instructor.

What are the Main things a karate instructor should think about to not just teach things correctly, but keep people interested throughout the class etc.

Would any of you experienced teachers care to share the tools of the trade?

[Shaun]

Emma has in fact for a long time now been collecting things and getting material for the Teachers Section on the Main Site.

It's coming together nicely and will all be up on the main site shortly, Be sure to keep your eyes peeled on the Main site for updates to that Page.

We already have Lesson Plan downloads on there, but we have so much more to get up on there. I will hopefully give you more information shortly.

But lets not stop conversation here though, please guys, help him out, as I think this thread could be of great interest and generate interesting points.

Shaun

[SusanW]

Perhaps not what you were expected, but here's my take on it...

I think perhaps the kind of instructor that's good for kyu grades needs to have the type of personality to entertain, inspire, make people feel as if they belong, encourage, support, pander to their whims....just get people hooked really. It doesn't matter too much what they teach them but more that they get them hooked and therefore self-sufficient.

For people that already are hooked and self-sufficient that kind of stuff is irrelevant. What they need is an instructor that is good at karate - someone that's constantly pushing back the boundaries in their own karate and moving things forward. If they have teaching skills and charismatic personality it's a bonus - but not a requirement. They just need to be exceptionally good at karate and in good physical condition. Something to aspire to.

Karate differs from other sports in that it's the norm for everyone to be a karateka for life - you don't give up training as you approach middle age and move into coaching. You keep training and you keep pushing back the boundaries. That's what karate is all about. Now, if an instructor isn't very good themselves then I ask myself why? If they really do understand what it takes to be good, then why aren't THEY good? If they can't teach themselves then obviously they can't teach me either.

So in short, I think idealy you want different instructors for different people. To keep a club packed with students (albeit mostly short stay), you need an entertainer - someone to make them feel good and keep them paying. But for the students that are actually interested and serious about learning properly you need an instructor that's skilled and serious about their own training. You want honesty from them - not sales talk.

[Paul Herbert]

Karate differs from other sports in that it's the norm for everyone to be a karateka for life - you don't give up training as you approach middle age and move into coaching. You keep training and you keep pushing back the boundaries. That's what karate is all about. Now, if an instructor isn't very good themselves then I ask myself why? If they really do understand what it takes to be good, then why aren't THEY good? If they can't teach themselves then obviously they can't teach me either

I agree 100% but there are far too many armchair karate instructors out there. You're only as good as your last training session as far as i'm concerned. Yes instructors may be restricted by their body types and perhaps health and injuries to the level they maintain/attain but they still have to be able to walk the walk. The first black-belt I ever bought fits me and hangs the same length as it did 18 years ago, unlike some of the instructors around today who's belts resemble a bow-tie!!!!

As far as teaching is concerned - make them sweat, make them laugh and lead by example. Explain it well but demonstrate it better. Know when to mix it up and throw in the odd gem to keep all levels interested and inspired.

[Fightingaintcoolguys]

I like what you said about explain it well but demonstrate it better.

Do you think to keep the students attention, you need to keep them a little in awe of you?

I know when I train with people who I consider myself to be as physically good as, I am not overawed by their physical ability at least (Not taking into consideration their actual knowledge).

I suppose this mentality of the Sensei being better than the student actually acts as a driving force for the instructor to keep working and training to keep pushing himself.

[simon]

It is good to be a good karate -ka to demonstrate the basics and atittude affectively. Also to explain in details why you do things

Zen kustzu dachi" why to we bend the fron leg" to aid stability and grounding of the hips"

Why so as you hips are lower than the other persons giving you gravity and stability " get some one tall or the same hight and drop your hips and shoe how this works.

Why do we turn the from foot in slighty " to give stability to the knee and oppersite hip.

Why is the back foot facing forward " to aid hip and power direction for the legs and hips into a technique.

At what point do we use Kima" at the point where the body is extended and at the point to return. ( as in karate we push through the technique) not punch onto surface.

Make sure the legs are in place before ethe technique" other wise there is no stability in the upper body.

Power the back leg is the earth, the upper body (punch) live and the front leg the neutral.(Pad work so people can feel their techniques is also good)

(sorry for bad spelling)

I hope this helps

[Lyndon_Davies]

I like what you said about explain it well but demonstrate it better.

Do you think to keep the students attention, you need to keep them a little in awe of you?

I know when I train with people who I consider myself to be as physically good as, I am not overawed by their physical ability at least (Not taking into consideration their actual knowledge).

I suppose this mentality of the Sensei being better than the student actually acts as a driving force for the instructor to keep working and training to keep pushing himself.

I think the explain/demonstrate part depends upon whether the student reacts better to visual or verbal teaching. Personally, I like the instructor to explain what they want, but I tend to watch them closely as I've learned that even if they believe what they're telling you to do, it's sometimes not exactly what their body's doing.....

But to agree with what's being said it's better if the instructor can actually do something as "bow-tie belts" don't have the "wow" factor. (to be fair, I know an excellent aerobics instructor who is a little "plump" ) It helps if I can't do what they're asking me to do (yet).

While I know market forces are different these days, I found that as a lower grade I needed a "do what I say as many times as I say it" instructor, who took no prisoners, but he'd probably be poor for student retention - now I know a bit, I prefer the people who expect much but aren't so "rigid" in their teaching. It also helps if they're open to questions. I also prefer the "working in twos or threes" type of training to the "all of us in lines" work.

[fujicolt]

may i respectfully suggest to anyone transitioning from 'on of the group learning' to 'one of the few having to teach this stuff' that you go and read up on

AUDIO/VISUAL AND KINEASTHETIC LEARNING'

AUDIO - HEAR IT
VISUAL - SEE IT
KINEASTHETIC - FEEL/EXPERIENCE IT

once you understand how we all learn you will begin to understand how to 'teach it'

you will find that 'most' - but not all - students will have two elements that are more productive - and you can (it only takes practice and getting to spot the signs) walk amongst a class and be able to adjust to THIER individual needs. never perfect but far more so if YOU - as thier instructor - take the time to study it all and them!

good luck

[AndyOB]

All students always respond to more to praise than constant criticism, especially kids. Whenever correcting a student always try to point out a positive. "That's fantastic spirit. Well done. Now just try to lower your stance and straighten your back leg in zenkuts and it'll be perfect" Then finish with another positive. "That's it, fantastic!"

Positive criticism brings positive results and retains members.

[Lyndon_Davies]

All students always respond to more to praise than constant criticism, especially kids. Whenever correcting a student always try to point out a positive. "That's fantastic spirit. Well done. Now just try to lower your stance and straighten your back leg in zenkuts and it'll be perfect" Then finish with another positive. "That's it, fantastic!"

Positive criticism brings positive results and retains members.

I agree, but Andy, you're very familiar with someone who didn't used to teach like that but that was then... and it didn't do me any (lasting) harm

I seem to have produced a number of excellent karateka with absolutely no confidence in their own ability who are extremely self critical (talk about passing on your own faults to people... ) and so in the past ten-fifteen years I've adopted a much more "cr@p sandwich" approach (as detailed by Andy). Thing is, I don't think some of these people are as good as the poor souls who rarely got any praise, but they believe they are and seem to enjoy their training more!

[AndyOB]

All students always respond to more to praise than constant criticism, especially kids. Whenever correcting a student always try to point out a positive. "That's fantastic spirit. Well done. Now just try to lower your stance and straighten your back leg in zenkuts and it'll be perfect" Then finish with another positive. "That's it, fantastic!"

Positive criticism brings positive results and retains members.

I agree, but Andy, you're very familiar with someone who didn't used to teach like that but that was then... and it didn't do me any (lasting) harm

I seem to have produced a number of excellent karateka with absolutely no confidence in their own ability who are extremely self critical (talk about passing on your own faults to people... ) and so in the past ten-fifteen years I've adopted a much more "cr@p sandwich" approach (as detailed by Andy). Thing is, I don't think some of these people are as good as the poor souls who rarely got any praise, but they believe they are and seem to enjoy their training more!

Don't know who you're on about there Lyndon! Lol. I suppose the trick is to identify the students that require a guts full of "cr@p sandwich" and those that thrive on the more direct 'wheat from chaf' sorting methods that we were subjected to and relished in....and still do.

[Lyndon_Davies]

Don't know who you're on about there Lyndon! Lol. I suppose the trick is to identify the students that require a guts full of "cr@p sandwich" and those that thrive on the more direct 'wheat from chaf' sorting methods that we were subjected to and relished in....and still do.

yep..... but to be fair I'm far happier with the "wheat from chaf" style... that way, when I get a compliment I KNOW I've earned it... I used to be so chuffed with the rare "Good" I got

[fujicolt]

OOPS! sorry to be a party pooper here but it seems people are saying 'I was taught/instructed like this' SO I'll try and find an opposite!

I would respectfully suggest that you go - I was was taught/Instructed like that - and i didn't like it/found it counterproductive - so i am gonna do all the research i can on 'teaching/Instructing' no matter what the subject - so that not only will i be a better 'Teacher/Instructor' than those that taught me but i will also be able to say i have made every effort to be bang up to date with my approach for every student i have!

It ain't about 'beating' those who went before by doing 'the opposite - or something different'.
NO it is about doing it as professionally and as productively as you can for every student - AND THAT WILL OFTEN BE COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE!

[Lyndon_Davies]

OOPS! sorry to be a party pooper here but it seems people are saying 'I was taught/instructed like this' SO I'll try and find an opposite!

I would respectfully suggest that you go - I was was taught/Instructed like that - and i didn't like it/found it counterproductive - so i am gonna do all the research i can on 'teaching/Instructing' no matter what the subject - so that not only will i be a better 'Teacher/Instructor' than those that taught me but i will also be able to say i have made every effort to be bang up to date with my approach for every student i have!

Actually Steve, if you read my earlier post I said I initially taught the way I was taught by constantly nit-picking and little or no positive reinforcement. As a result I produced a number of excellent students who didn't believe how good they were and were constantly finding faults to work on (been there, got the T shirt). By looking at that fault in my teaching I moved to the "cr@p sandwich" approach (a rose by any other name) which has produced excellent students with a far better view of their ability. I think the first batch are better because they're never happy with their performance and are always striving to improve, but they probably enjoy it less. The "nit-pickers" now get more (sparse, or they wouldn't believe it) praise and in some cases it helps them.

But...even though I know better, I still prefer to be taught the "wheat from the chaff" way.... I was boxing six months before the coach gave me any encouragement (indeed, before he called me anything that wasn't "fatty", "lazy g*t" or others not for consumption )
Didn't bother me as I'm not comfortable with praise as a motivator - my problem, no-one elses...

End of the day it's an appreciation that it's "horses for courses" and they/we're all different.

[fujicolt]

Lyndon - i think we got cross wires there - and i totally see your point - I also prefer an instructor who tells me what i am doing wrong rather than 'yes that's okay' - and little else

My point is - if you research the science of teaching - especially so with teaching 'predetermined adults' it gives you several avanues/approaches you can take

In essence i agree with you cos i think we are saying the same thing but you speak that Welsh stuff and us lot can't understand