shotokan has many children

[magpie]

I was just going through here and there and noticed (was suprised) how many different styles have been based on shotokan or shotokan forms a part of the style.

IMO i guess its natural for this to happen because shotokan is such a basic style and its easy to incorprate technques from other arts into the system, some of the more famous ones that have shotokan elements in them, ofcourse they are all modified from the original art.

Wado ryu - shotokan & jujutsu
Kyokushin - shotokan, goju and others
Tae kwon do
Tang so do
Chito ryu
Shotokai
Shindo Jinen ryu

[kensei]

I agree with 99% of what you said......

Not to argue but Shotokai is not a result of Shotokan or an off shoot. Technically Shotokai is Shotokan...just a different association. both kind of started at the same time and came off of Funakoshi directly.

also other arts that grew out of the off shoots would fall under this idea...like Chung Do Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo, Tang Soo Do Mi Guk Kwan, Chun Kuk Do, Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan all come from Tang Soo Do and theirfore have ideas and features of Shotokan and have been brought to Korean arts. Which is why styles like TKD have Early Kata that look very much like Shotokan.

[bassaiguy]

In my neck of the woods even some Kempo groups have added Shotokan kata to their syllabi even though there's no historical link. Imitation is the highest form of flattery

[fujicolt]

In my neck of the woods even some Kempo groups have added Shotokan kata to their syllabi even though there's no historical link. Imitation is the highest form of flattery

couldn't agree more but in reverse do you not agree that Shotokan also needs to 'imitate' and bring in far more modern training ideas/principles - oft sports science based?

[kensei]

couldn't agree more but in reverse do you not agree that Shotokan also needs to 'imitate' and bring in far more modern training ideas/principles - oft sports science based?

That is assuming some of have not yet

[fujicolt]

I assume little james but i am most willing to hear of real finite examples of it - please list them and enlighten me?

I am not claiming it has not happened - it has - i have witnessed it but it has been - in my experience - down to individuals and is not an organizational/association matter - to my knowledge anywhere

i hope - really hope you can enlighten me to a difference i was not yet aware off.

[kensei]

I assume little james but i am most willing to hear of real finite examples of it - please list them and enlighten me?

I am not claiming it has not happened - it has - i have witnessed it but it has been - in my experience - down to individuals and is not an organizational/association matter - to my knowledge anywhere

i hope - really hope you can enlighten me to a difference i was not yet aware off.

I see your point. I was more saying that some individuals and even dojos have adopted some more scientific and more modern forms of training. My question is why would an organization/style that is traditional suddenly turn around and change whole training theories to be "non-traditional". It is not the job of the organization to see out of the dojo and tell people how to do axuillary training in my oppinion. An individual instructor may select to do smoe more modern training but really I see the bigger umbrellas job as bein one of maintaining the traditional training. It is up to the idividuals, instructors and perhaps some Dojo's to pick up some modern training. But really, the organizations should strive to maintain the traditions and training that they have had all along!

My point being is some of us with training in the more modern science of training ext do put them into play on a daily basis. I really dont think I want the JKA abandoning or adopting training ideals that are counter to the traditional Karate (And I use that term knowingly) that Nakayama Sensei set out, or even that he learned from Funakoshi and his seniors.

A call for overall modernization should be done at a dojo level, but the organization should strive to keep the traditional roots and links alive while the students and Dojos find new ways to make those roots work in real life and for the individuals.

But that is just my thinking and I respect others who feel that parting with the past is the only way to move forwards, its just not my way.

[nathanso]

All organizations like the JKA would have to do is say that they are going back to the pre-twentieth century traditions of not treating kata solely as performance art and kumite as competition-based sparring. Combine that with what is currently known about sports physiology and you have a modernized traditional MA.

[kensei]

All organizations like the JKA would have to do is say that they are going back to the pre-twentieth century traditions of not treating kata solely as performance art and kumite as competition-based sparring. Combine that with what is currently known about sports physiology and you have a modernized traditional MA.

Oh, thats all they have to do

[nathanso]

Well, they do say that they are the "Keeper of Karate Highest Tradition."