Identity

[shingitai]

However, what I do have a problem with, as an adult, is the fact I don't like having to refer to someone as 'The Death Warrior' or 'Sensei Suck Ma Balls' for example when replying to a post that interests me. I do like to have a name or just an initial and surname in the signature box as a point of reference. That's just my view on the topic.

Good point! The only valid point that I can see thus far.

[Andy]

It is a good point...but like I say, it only takes a quick PM to find out who someone is. If they want you to know they'll say, if not I'm sure they'll politely decline telling you.

I still don't see why knowing someone's credebtials makes for better debate though

[Robert S]

They don't make for better debate, but forums are full of 12 year olds who like to cause mayhem pretending they are older, and copying everything off web sites, and others who force opinion but will not enter into debate. Surely an intelligent discussion based on liogic, reason, experience, intuition, feeling etc. leads to a more fruitful experiance that someone who signs themselves as Grand Master of the inner sanctum of the Karate Soke Society. That doesn't bode well for believing someone has credibility and may have the opposite effect.

[shingitai]

They don't make for better debate, but forums are full of 12 year olds who like to cause mayhem pretending they are older, and copying everything off web sites, and others who force opinion but will not enter into debate. Surely an intelligent discussion based on liogic, reason, experience, intuition, feeling etc. leads to a more fruitful experiance that someone who signs themselves as Grand Master of the inner sanctum of the Karate Soke Society. That doesn't bode well for believing someone has credibility and may have the opposite effect.

But if they offer good debate and valid data what difference does it make? So what if they are 12 years old or claiming to be Grand master soke doke? Does that take away from the fact that they know what they are talking about? If they present a valid argument or post then they must have experience, if not they will quickly fade.

If they are phonies they would never be able to keep up and would eventually be gone. If they are knowledgeable it wouldn't matter if they were 6 years old....unless the reader has some insecurities.

[Andy]

But if they offer good debate and valid data what difference does it make? So what if they are 12 years old or claiming to be Grand master soke doke? Does that take away from the fact that they know what they are talking about? If they present a valid argument or post then they must have experience, if not they will quickly fade.

If they are phonies they would never be able to keep up and would eventually be gone. If they are knowledgeable it wouldn't matter if they were 6 years old....unless the reader has some insecurities.

BINGO!

Knowing someone's name/credentials doesn't always guarantee intelligent debate!

[fujicolt]

Knowing someone's name/credentials doesn't always guarantee intelligent debate!

could not agree more BUT it is a far better starting point than ignorance of the Name and credentials of those you debate with

this is 'internet land' were geeks and fools will interupt and diminish what could be a wonderful thing - just because their anonimity allows them to do so!

on a personal point - I WANT TO DEBATE KARATE with people who can help me - and yes i hope i can help others - positive results being the intention

but i - and others - will soon grow tired of it if we have to spend time and effort (wasted i would suggest) in trying to work out the value of comments/info etc posted

people won't join in if they do not have confidence in the site.

what a sadness it would be - TSW - great intentions but full of keyboard warriors and 'spanner in the works' posters.

[Duncan Idaho]

but i - and others - will soon grow tired of it if we have to spend time and effort (wasted i would suggest) in trying to work out the value of comments/info etc posted

So a guy who has never done karate, his comments do not mean much. However, some one who does karate, his comments mean something?? Correct?

Then that could progress to the point that people with only a few years training have less value and important things to say than those with 15 upward years training.

I think if what is being said is good, then that is all that matters.

Paul Herbert. I think a person desire to use a handle outweighs the incovience of you having to talk to call some one darth vader or duncan idaho. I acutally do not see you point. I do not think what you are trying to say is a very strong point. I do not mean this as an attack.

Next, given the fact that people can make up fake real names, I do not see why we are even talking about this. I could pretend to be John Smith from the UK. You guys would be happy that it seems to be a real name, when if fact it would be a lie. I could say I have 20 years training in, when if fact that would not be true.

I think you just have to accept that who you are talking to is going to do it honestly. You have to use your judgment and if you think the person is just trolling then ignore him or whatever. That is the best you can ever hope for.

Just let the handle grow on you, and you can associate if a user is worth talking to or not based on what they say. Personally, any new user, like myself, I would not give them much credit or time at the start. After some time, if they prove themselves to be worthy, then talk to them.

[SusanW]

I agree Duncan. I have to say that there's not a single name on these boards that means more to me than darth vader or duncan idaho. Steve - what I know about you is 100% what you've told me. It could be a pack of lies for all I know or care. It just doesn't carry any weight with me. Unless I've met someone and seen them in action then the ONLY thing that I'm interested in is what they have to say. I don't even care how well they express themselves. It's just their thoughts and ideas I'm interested in.

Let me tell you about a very real downside to making your identity known....

I assumed that it was necessary to reveal your identity here because of my experience on a certain other board. Had I known it wasn't required I wouldn't have done it. There are way too many obsessive nutters prowling the internet. I'd much rather keep myself to myself. The only possible thing that can come out of me giving my real name is a bunch of people from my own org getting their knickers in a twist because they disagree with something I've said. (And believe me - it's happened in the past on other boards). Or some looney tunes contacting my instructor to inform him that my opinions don't match those of my organisation (believe me - it's happened in the past on other boards). I see no positive benefit. I can see some benefit in a ruling that the Administrators know who everyone is, but I don't think it's a good idea to make it a requirement to make your identity public. Many people will decide it's simply not worth the risk.

As for who Duncan Idaho is - maybe he's a nobody like me, or maybe he's some famous, highly knowledgeable and experienced instructor that just wants to keep a low profile and blend in. It really doesn't matter who he is - all that matters is what he has to say.

My vote (for what it's worth) is for the right to privacy. The pressure some people are applying in order to get people to reveal their identity makes me feel uncomfortable about people knowing who I am. If people are going to throw their weight around and try and force their will on others then I'd rather they didn't know who I am.

[Paul Herbert]

I acutally do not see you point.

It was so quick you missed it, I'll point again later..

I do not think what you are trying to say is a very strong point

I wasn't trying to say anything. I just gave my own opinion on debating with people who go by an odd Pseudonym. Personally I'm happy for you to dress up a girl when you post and go by the name of Mary as long as what you say has some substance.

[fujicolt]

Paul herbert wrote:

I wasn't trying to say anything. I just gave my own opinion on debating with people who go by an odd Pseudonym. Personally I'm happy for you to dress up a girl when you post and go by the name of Mary as long as what you say has some substance.

Paul - i laughed 'til i nearly choked when i read that! Brilliant!!!

But i would respectfully suggest that the substance of a post would surely be made clearer if the author of the post had the credibilty of being 'known'.

but heyho - i still laughed like hell at your comment - karate advice from some grey haired old master dressed as a girl -
what can one say

[MigueL]

I think this topic is rather nasty hey? I am not too sure why there is "hot-headedness" or how ever one can explain it. But come on, this is the number one forum in the world, let us keep it professtional & CLEAN!

Well done to every one who is being positive & giving us a part of their positive mind & their insight on Karatedo, especially Rob S & Paul H.

[Guest]

One day there was a good 5th dan he helped his sensei write the monthly mag on researching for it the cheif instructor gave away some secrets or information that he thought that only the 5 th dan should know , the 5 th dan being a bit stupid and honest wrote the secret information in the monthly mag. There was a big bust up between the two and the association lost a valuable 5 th dan . ( true story )

Its not about me but I could be in the same position couldnt I ? If I was I would not jepardise this training for the world .The site police already know who I am thats good enough for me.
I know what works and I now realise I am subject to some special training I know this now after participating on this site no site bully should be able to stop those who are intersted or want to know about what I have to offer from reaching them .
I also have enough respect to my Sensei to not completely give away any of his secrets .
Osu

[Duncan Idaho]

But i would respectfully suggest that the substance of a post would surely be made clearer if the author of the post had the credibilty of being 'known'.

There is no rational reason for this. Just because one knows who is posting does not change the substance of a post. I would love for some one to logically explain to how a post is made clearer just by knowing the author?

I see no rational as how a post is any better or worse if the author is made known. Actually there are some who would ride their name, and others who would not question just based on who is posting.

Fujicolt, you wanting to know the names, and saying it adds credibility to a post, could actually be suggesting that some people's ideas and posts are more valued than others. Would you even go so far as to say you feel some have more the right to post here than others based on who they are??

[200374]

Steve - Paul, the logic, that does seem to escape some, is simple. Anonymity allows you to say whatever you like without fear of any consequence. If you feel your opinion is worthy of consideration then what's wrong with putting your name to it?

Ged Moran

PS. I never answer witheld telephone calls or messages.

[Helspeth]

I think the incident which prompted this post was just a friendly question - someone wanting to know someones background. Not the full "far end of the fart and which way the stink went", just a friendly "who are you". Whether this was taken too far I'm not going to comment.

However, this forum seemed previously to be a friendly place. On the whole, I think we are a group of friends. Obviously, friends disagree and fall out at times.Some of the full-time professional martial artists may see this as an extension of their business, although not in a money-making way. However, I see it as a group of like-minded people who come to ask questions and share their ideas for the benefit of others, not just for their own ego.

Each member should respect the others right to anonymity or the right to post their full name, location, club etc. If you don't want to debate with someone just because you don't know who they are, simply ignore their postings.

I am a complete numpty, idiot 6th kyu. I have never met any of you as far as I am aware. However, I feel that this forum is a place where I have learnt a lot, from those whose names I know and those who are anonymous. I appreciate everything you have ever given to me, and now I ask you all to leave this thread as it is, and continue to post about karate, respecting each others right to be whatever they want.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEase.