JKA etc - what went on?

[growe]

Hi all,
I started back training last October after about 10 years or so off. When I left the world of karate the JKA were still the foremost Shotokan group in the world, Nakayama Sensei was still the head, Enoeda Sensei was head of Europe and the the KUGB were affiliated with Japan. Come to think of it, England also had a governing body!
Since I've come back it's all changed! I'd like to know what exactly happened to the JKA when Master Nakayama passed away. I know a split occurred but who were the major players and who is doing what now? I'm sure I've seen an American JKA mentioned, is this group part of the original JKA or something separate? Are the KUGB still affiliated to the original JKA or are they out on their own now? What happened to karate England?
Lots of questions, answers on a post (card) please
Cheers,
Gareth

[plwilloughby]

10 years!? Nakayama has been gone for 20 years now so you must have been away for more than 10. We could fill a book with all that has happened in that time. I don't have all the exact dates in which everything happened but here's a summary.

1983 - Paul starts shotokan training
1987 - Master Nakayama passes away
1990 - JKA splits into two factions. 1 headed by Asai the other by Nakahara. Court battle ensues as to who can use the name JKA.
1999 - court battle concludes, Nakahara side the winner. Asai forms the JKS.
2003 - Master Enoeda passes away. KUGB resigns from JKA
2006 - Master Asai passes away
2007 - ISKF resigns from JKA

There's lots of other details I haven't filled in but others can feel free to chime in at their pleasure.

Paul

[kensei]

10 years!? Nakayama has been gone for 20 years now so you must have been away for more than 10. We could fill a book with all that has happened in that time. I don't have all the exact dates in which everything happened but here's a summary.

1983 - Paul starts shotokan training
1987 - Master Nakayama passes away
1990 - JKA splits into two factions. 1 headed by Asai the other by Nakahara. Court battle ensues as to who can use the name JKA.
1999 - court battle concludes, Nakahara side the winner. Asai forms the JKS.
2003 - Master Enoeda passes away. KUGB resigns from JKA
2006 - Master Asai passes away
2007 - ISKF resigns from JKA

There's lots of other details I haven't filled in but others can feel free to chime in at their pleasure.

Paul

Paul, you covered almost all the main events. And with out bias, that is the best part.


Growe

as paul said so much has happened in the years since Nakayamas passing that it would be a book to fill out, especially when you look at all the smaller splits...>Like Yahara spliting from Asai, and Abe spliting on his own. The ISKF spliting from the JKA and several south american groups going back to the JKA and leaving the ISKF, Kanazawa leaving and forming his own group, the JKA Americas being formed and leaving the ISKF basically to go back to the JKA, all the changes in England and Europe, Kase leaving and his passing, and WAY more.

Lets just say it is better to find a sensei you like and focus on training in that dojo for a while and not looking out side those walls....it gets scarry otherwise.

[growe]

Wow! Even more going on than I thought! My memory must be a bit hazy then (age does that), I was still training regularly in '92 and KUGB were still part of JKA then (or so I thought) but I didn't realise all that stuff was going on in court. I knew Kanazawa had formed SKI away from the JKA but don't really know why he left. Who are KUGB aligned with now or is Sensei Sherry in charge now?
Take your point James, luckily I have a great Sensei who focuses on the here and now and that's all I want. However, I've got a mind for details so have enjoyed 'catching-up' with things, both locally and globally, since my return. When I was younger it was all gradings and competitions but being a few years on now I'm perhaps a bit more interested in karate history and development and how we got where we are now, hence my previous question about kata history that you responded to.
Any more info is always welcome.
Cheers,
Gareth

[Robert S]

Wow! Even more going on than I thought! My memory must be a bit hazy then (age does that), I was still training regularly in '92 and KUGB were still part of JKA then (or so I thought) but I didn't realise all that stuff was going on in court. I knew Kanazawa had formed SKI away from the JKA but don't really know why he left. Who are KUGB aligned with now or is Sensei Sherry in charge now?
Take your point James, luckily I have a great Sensei who focuses on the here and now and that's all I want. However, I've got a mind for details so have enjoyed 'catching-up' with things, both locally and globally, since my return. When I was younger it was all gradings and competitions but being a few years on now I'm perhaps a bit more interested in karate history and development and how we got where we are now, hence my previous question about kata history that you responded to.
Any more info is always welcome.
Cheers,
Gareth

Gareth,

The KUGB is under Sherry Sensei and from all accounts doing better than ever. Ohta sensei has got JKA England and also doing well.

Splits are, I imagine, inevitable and part of progress. Other styles as well, part of life I guess.

The internet is full of what has happened, so it is there for the reading. The 1999 decision was likely the major turning factor for many of the Japanese JKA sensei, and it was thereafter that four decided to 'go their own way'. Many who were outside returned, some left, but in the essence the karate does not change. Good strong Shotokan as you remember it.

But it is better to focus on your karate and let the past be just that. It does not assist to dwell on what happened as it may diminish our view of karate. Basically poiltical struggles will always be in Shotokan and probably will be the death of it, unless somehow we all get our act together.

[kensei]

A buddy of mine does Uechi style Karate and since he started doing this style over ten years ago he has had to change the style name three times. His instructor left one group and joined a group that did the SAME Karate but called them selves Pangainoon and then he joind a style that called themselves Shoehi ryu or something and now he is back to training with a group that still uses Uechi ryu!

I guess a few splits ext is not that bad when you think our style does not have to change style names....now that would be confusing.

[Alex]

Ok, so I am a new Jka student. I have been studying in independent dojo for about eight years though. Anyways, why did the kugb split? Also could someone elaborate on the court case a little more.

Osu

[Malk]

Ok, so I am a new Jka student. I have been studying in independent dojo for about eight years though. Anyways, why did the kugb split? Also could someone elaborate on the court case a little more.

Osu

Please no, don't do it, its a real pandora's box.

[Robert S]

Ok, so I am a new Jka student. I have been studying in independent dojo for about eight years though. Anyways, why did the kugb split? Also could someone elaborate on the court case a little more.

Osu

Please no, don't do it, its a real pandora's box.

Agreed!

[growe]

Hi All,
Thanks all for the replies and info. Can I say from the outset that I certainly didn't want to annoy or upset anyone with the thread or stir anything up. I didn't realise that there had been so much legal stuff and obviously a lot of bitterness etc. I just wanted to catch up out of interest on what had happenned since I left as it all seems quite different now.
I agree totally with concentrating on now and going forward in karate as in life. I never liked the politics involved in both Shotokan and when multi-styles get together on governing boards etc., in the end most of us are simply doing karate-do and trying to improve the best we can.
Apologies if my naiivity offended anyone.
Cheers,
Gareth

[Robert S]

Gareth,

I doubt you offended anyone. It is just there is so much bitterness and confusion over this issue still, Nakayama has been gone 20 years, the JKA batttle was finalised 8 years ago, but still the wounds appear to be open at times.

The overall result in my opinion, is that karate shotokan weakened with all the splits. But that is just my view.

In some ways progress has been allowed to happen though!

[nathanso]

I guess a few splits ext is not that bad when you think our style does not have to change style names....now that would be confusing.

Shotokan has been split ever since Funakoshi died 50 years ago. It remains to be seen if the differences between Yahara-ha, Asai-ha, Ohshima-ha, ISKF-ha, and JKA-ha seem as different to karate-ka 50 years from now, as the differences between Shotokai and Shotokan appear to us.

[kensei]

I guess a few splits ext is not that bad when you think our style does not have to change style names....now that would be confusing.

Shotokan has been split ever since Funakoshi died 50 years ago. It remains to be seen if the differences between Yahara-ha, Asai-ha, Ohshima-ha, ISKF-ha, and JKA-ha seem as different to karate-ka 50 years from now, as the differences between Shotokai and Shotokan appear to us.

I see what you are saying. And I agree...I think however that we will all still be calling it Shotokan. Like I Said over the last ten or so years a budy of mine has had to change the name of what he is studying three times...and he stuck to the same stuff for three years. the style split up three time and they changed the name three times.

I hope that never happens to us.

[John Hunter]

I guess a few splits ext is not that bad when you think our style does not have to change style names....now that would be confusing.

Shotokan has been split ever since Funakoshi died 50 years ago. It remains to be seen if the differences between Yahara-ha, Asai-ha, Ohshima-ha, ISKF-ha, and JKA-ha seem as different to karate-ka 50 years from now, as the differences between Shotokai and Shotokan appear to us.

Kase-ha certainly will be!!!!

[kensei]

I guess a few splits ext is not that bad when you think our style does not have to change style names....now that would be confusing.

Shotokan has been split ever since Funakoshi died 50 years ago. It remains to be seen if the differences between Yahara-ha, Asai-ha, Ohshima-ha, ISKF-ha, and JKA-ha seem as different to karate-ka 50 years from now, as the differences between Shotokai and Shotokan appear to us.

Kase-ha certainly will be!!!!

I have to plead a bit of ignorance, a bit, but I read that Kase basically taught the Kata that he was shown and also some theories that were a bit different. One of his students then went and created a bunch of new Kata...not Kase. From what I understand the core of his students basically teach Shotokan much as the JKA does.....But I Could be wrong.